Knife Fights???

Found this interesting article on "knife fighting."

When the conversation quoted above starts to head down that direction, I begin to feel an overwhelming urge to put my forehead into my hand and shake my head, because I know I am about to get a long dissertation on how great of a knife fighter this guy is. Yep, he's a knifefighter alright ... his business card even says so. And I *know* that I am going to be regaled with awe inspiring tales of all the knife fights that his instructor -- not only survived --but gloriously 'won' using this awesome knife fighting system that studmuffins now knows.

Not to put too fine of a point on it, but thinking that training is the same as doing is like a virgin telling me he knows everything there is about sex because he's studied porno movies.

The only people who are going to be impressed are other virgins. And all the cocky arrogance the world about his deadly training isn't going to change the fact, that such a person is still a virgin -- therefore NOT a knifer, much less a "knife fighter."
To Would-Be Knife Fighters
Here's a message to any would be knife fighter who thinks that by pulling a weapon in a fight will guarantee he will never lose...

Learn to take your beating like a man.

If you step into the arena of violence it doesn't fuckin' matter what you call it. Violence is what it is. A fight doesn't change because you call it 'self-defense.' Violence happens for a lot of reasons and an overwhelming majority of it is NOT a matter of life or death. And that especially applies to fighting.

If you choose to 'fight,' accept the fact that you can -- and WILL -- lose. Sooner or later, the odds are going to catch up and you aren't going to be the one who comes out ahead. If you can't accept that reality, then you have no business stepping into the arena.

By panicking and pulling a knife to avoid taking an oft times non-lethal pounding, you've just escalated it into serious shit. That action has taken it OUT of social violence and made it a deadly force encounter. Your worst fears have been realized because YOU MADE IT HAPPEN.

That dude is now legally justified to pull a gun out and blow your brains into a fine pink mist. If you use you super ninja silat commando knife training on the dude, then YOU are legally the aggressor ... no matter who started it. YOU have crossed the line into excessive force AND instigated the use of lethal force. And lethal force is only justified if you are in IMMEDIATE danger of death or grievous bodily injury. Losing a fight does NOT qualify. No matter how scared you are of losing.

When it comes to using a knife on another human being let me state right now:
I don't give a fuck what you think "self-defense" with a knife is.

Nor do I give a rat's ass about what your instructor says is
justified use of force (as he teaching you all these killer kung fu
commando deadly knife moves).

I also don't give a tinker's damn about all the macho huffing and
puffing about "If I ever had to use this I'd..." BS that so many
wanna-be 'knife fighters' repeat endlessly on the internet (or the
ignorant chanting of "I'd rather be judged by twelve than carried by
six" mantra)

I say this because about 99% of what is out there about 'knife fighting' will either get you killed or put you into the prison showers.

Your problem is this: if you use a knife according to a lot of the training that is out there, you're going to be in trouble. No matter what your guru/pak/datu or some knife fighting ninja on a forum told you (or you've convinced yourself):
1) A knife is a lethal force item
2) As such its legal/moral/ethical application is narrowly allowed
3) 'self-defense' is a legally defined term.

And it is up to you to meet that standard. That standard is NOT going to change because you felt you were 'defending yourself.' It's very easy to allow your emotions to carry you away, pull and use a knife when it is not justified -- either legally or in actuality. Knives are like power tools, mistakes happen a whole lot faster.

Now you may think I don't know what I'm talking about ... except for the fact that my bank account is a whole lot bigger because attorneys call me when they have a case where knives were used. This should interest wanna-be knife fighters for three reasons:
1) I have personally survived several knife incidents and I've seen a lot
more first-hand, so I know how knives are commonly used.
2) I know the dangerous and illegal fantasies that are commonly taught
in the 'knife fighting' business -- and most of it is NOT self-defense.
3) I prefer to work with the prosecutors.

So basically you have a choice, you can listen to me now, or you can listen to me in court.

And if you listen now, hopefully you'll stay out of court. If you end up there, you'd really rather have me on your side explaining why you didn't do what you are being charged with. Add to this that if (despite this warning) you choose to listen some so-called knife fighting expert who promise that you'll-be-a-weedwhacker -of- death-after-you-study-his-deadly- system, don't be surprised to see me testifying against you you use that system.

A Reality Break
The reason I'm so harsh about what is being taught as knife combat is NOT to get you to come and study my "ultimate knife fighting system." I'm trying to save lives ... either yours or someone else's. This ain't no game and it ain't no fantasy, so let's get some perspective on the subject of so-called "knife fighting."

Amateur vs. 'Professional' Knifers
What are the difference 'ways' you will be attacked with a knife? Clearing up an unfortunate choice of words about how a 'professional' and an 'amateur' will attack you with a knife.

The Psychological Cost of Knife Use
Unlike many "experts" on the subject of knife fighting, I have used knives in the street. This is not a brag, it a statement of fact. The reason it is not bragging is that I have also experienced the psychological, psychic and moral hell that resulted from the experience. This is a letter to a young man who seemed too eager to carry a knife to defend himself in the streets. It addresses the real costs of using a blade.

Dueling vs. Survival
Most so-called "knife fighting" training that is currently taught has very little to do with how knives are commonly used in violent situations. This is because much of what is being taught is predicated on what can only be called "dueling." The mindset, physics, strategies and attacks that occur in dueling situations are radically different than the many other ways that violent people use knives. Dueling is only one aspect of knife work, to survive you need to know the others as well.

"Expect to get cut" and Other Lies Taught About Knife Fighting
There are a lot of "macho myths" about knife fighting, here are some of the reasons they are dangerous misconceptions

Fantasy Self-Defense
There is a lot of fantasy-element in the so-called "knife fighting" world. Much of it having to do with the idea of it being a knife fight at all. But before you can start to winnow out the fantasy from the reality, you have to understand a little about the nature of fantasy and the politics that so often plague groups and organizations. Issues that will seriously affect what you learn regarding knife work -- and if you end up in prison for murder if you do what your "teacher" told you.

My thoughts on other instructors
What about other knife fighting instructors? Are they worth studying with?

This Isn't a Sparring Match
There are a lot of people who have gone to a few seminars, maybe even attended a camp who are going back to their school and hanging up shingles about their knife and stick fighting credentials. Furthermore there are many of these people's students who think they now know something about knife work. This is a very dangerous misconception

Use of Lethal Force
The bottom line is that in the eyes of the law, using a knife on another human being is using "deadly force." There is a very narrow spectrum where the use of lethal force is allowed, and if you don't know it you will end up in prison, losing everything you own to litigation -- or both.

Weapon disarms/Facing a Weapon
Unfortunately there are many people who have never faced a weapon in their lives telling you what works to 'save your life' when weapons are involved. The problem is that most of these techniques will get you killed. Or, if you're extremely lucky, merely hospitalized and maimed for the rest of your life. We take a hard look at the fantasies and the realities of weapon disarms.

What If Monkeys
It seems that no matter what seminar you go to there is always someone asking "What if it doesn't work?" Although this page is important for students to read, this page is by and large written for instructors, giving them advice on how to handle WIMs

Well.. I'm no knife fighter, but I have fought with knives. I don't claim to know anything, but I'll try to do whatever it takes to survive the ordeal. This guy actually sounds full of shit to me... it really seems he has to prove what he is saying is true, because of this or because of that... however, it still sounds like a bunch of internet mumbling, just from a different angle.

I'm not sure where he's from, but there are plenty of GrandJury cases in Texas where deadly force was used for not only blows to the face, but even something as simple as death threats and the actors walked. With me... it really depends on the situation. If the person is fucked up on something or I can see the situation is really getting out of hand, then hell no, I'm not going down for the count so the idiot can continue doing whatever they want. Afterall, this isn't 3:30 in the school yard shit we're talking about here. Oh fuck.... you bloodied my nose... OK we're done.

One of the instances where I have used a knife, was when it was two against me and one was drunk off his ass and wanting shit. They came to my house looking for shit and scaring the hell out of my wife. The one that wasn't drunk even told me he wasn't gonna let his brother get shit-kicked without stepping in. They waited outside my apartment door to jump me... well I wasn't about to let that shit happen. So... I waited till they got tired of waiting and started to leave and then walked out and met them at the sidewalk. The drunk bastard lunged for me and I pulled a Buck 119 and tried my best to cut his throat. His brother saved his life by jerking him back... another couple of mm and I would have laid him open like a fucking fish. He then put his brother in the truck and returned to me, but this time he was calling me sir and wanted no further shit. It was over... was I in the wrong? Sure I was... we didn't have a phone then to call 911, but they were leaving, so I didn't have to go after them. What would a jury think?... what the fuck did I care, I was too full of piss and vinegar in those days and I may have very well wound up in jail again.

Now that I'm 20 years older... what would I do? Depends on the situation again. I may duke it out with an idiot, but I don't want to duke it out with a meth head. Reading people is important... what kind of harm are they looking to cause. That's where fear for life comes in. If I think you are going to try to take me down... then why?... what the fuck did I do?... Is it over a parking space? Then you have too much rage. Is it because you are fucked up? Then there is no telling what you will do. A fist fight isn't always so cut and dry. Some people just want to brawl... OK fine. Some people will beat you to death because they don't care to stop. What does the rage in that person say to you? Because that is how you'll tell it in the police report and that is how you'll tell it to a jury.

I do agree with one thing above... fuck the videos, books, whatever. If it's somethig you want to pursue... then do it right and get a trainer. Hands on is the only way to learn shit. Even in school... they don't just make you read shit... they make you write and shit too. Can you imagine a math class where you only had to read the math books?

very interesting story SoToo... I bet being in a fight like that was .... hell i dont know how to describe it man... that just seems... insane!!!!

There's been some other situations that were more insane... but that one bothered me the most. I knew I was wrong. My wife had actually been friends with the drunk guy's family, and they had given her a dresser. His wife didn't care anything about it, but the dude got drunk and decided he wanted it back. He had come over two more times, earlier that evening, and his drinking had gotten worse with each time. He had started calling me "son" and talking down to me, and I got pissed and escalated the problem.

He returned late in the evening with his brother, and they figured they could ambush me when I opened the door. When they knocked, I looked out the window and saw both of them waiting. They kept knocking and hollering my wife's name over and over and over. She was beside herself, but I just patiently waited. After all was said and done though, it really bothered me that I was willing to take a life over a fucking dresser. You can argue with yourself all you want about other principals invloved... but it really just boiled down to a dresser, alcohol, and high levels of testosterone.

My wife even talked to the friend afterwards... she apologized for her husbands behavior. She even wanted to talk to me... she apologized to me too, and thanked me for not continuing the attack. After her husband sobered up, he was like, "I'm so stupid... I could have gone to jail." but his brother was yelling, "You wouldn't have gone to jail! You were nearly killed you fucking moron!"

I could hear that conversation going on in the background while talking to the wife. It didn't make me feel any better.... the fucker really didn't know what was what.

I had a lot more shit written after this point... but maybe it's just too much info. In short... I can go back over my life and tell you some hair raising shit about why I was like I was. I had reasons... probably not good ones, but shit fucked up my head. Thank God my wife pulled my ass out of that world. I'll save some other shit for another post, or a sit down over beer.

yea man im glad your wife is a sound woman that knows what is best for mr so too

glad to have ya on here man... get some of your other buddies to join up.