Peaceful coexistence or religion by force?

When looking at the history of man, religion stands out as one of the most corrosive and poisonous of the human phenomenon and together with simple greed, the other cause of most of the hurt and suffering that some individuals have ever inflicted upon others. More often than not, both religion and greed have mixed it up, fueling one another and providing justification for one another.

Did one king or priest covet the riches of a certain group? Why . . . just declare them blasphemous and arrest them and torture them and kill them and, of course, take all their belongings for the crown and the church. A couple of easy examples come to mind: the Templar order and its obliteration at the hands of Pope Clement V and the king of France and the obliteration of the Spanish Jews at the hands of the Catholic kings and the church. In both cases greed and religion worked hand in hand to achieve very similar ends although the victim group were quite dissimilar in their own religious outlook. Again, those are easy examples and there are millions more along the twisted, sad and corrupt history of our species.

I wonder if there has ever been a religion that did not indulge in this kind of behavior, at one time or another. There may have been. I don’t know of it.

Still, I recognize that for many, religion is a quest for that which they consider good, and as such, although the means are wrong from my Atheist point of view, I recon that it should be possible for people of different religions and for Atheists to live together in peace.

What is required for people of different religious outlooks to live in peace, side by side?

I propose it is the recognition that there’s a overriding aspect of human life that is above religion: respect for the rights of the individual. Your take on it may very well be that this respect comes and is mandated to you by God or you may come to this respect from a totally rational approach. It’s origins to you notwithstanding, this respect is paramount for peaceful coexistence.

This is a tough pill to swallow for some religious types. They are not prepared, nor have they ever been, to accept the notion that there’s something above their beliefs system.

The power to abduct, maim, torture and kill in the name of religion had to be taken away by force from the clutches of every church on Earth that ever wielded it.

And today, there’s still one major religion that holds that power to be sacred and unequivocal: islam.

And in the Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave, there’s still the subject that will not die, of teaching religion to unwilling subjects and with their own money: the subject of teaching “creationism” in any of its forms, in public schools. Money from taxes can’t be used to further the teaching of religion according to the separation of state and church. The dance of the religious side of the issue to try and disguise their religion as science would be very funny if the subject was not as important as it is and if the rights of all Americans were not involved.

So, IMMO, the beginning of any possibility of peaceful coexistence between religions (and non religion, Atheism) HAS to be the renunciation to the use of force to further ANY religious creed or lack of it.

That leaves all creationists and the whole of islam in a difficult position.

Still, there’s no other way to make it possible for people of different religious views to coexist peacefully. Religion by force HAS to be renounced.


JB

Religion does not have to be renounced. Many, millions of people, worldwide are religious and do not kill people in the name of their religion. Without a belief in the supernatural, what is there? If this is all that there is in life, it sucks. If the best my life or experience will ever be is a good lay, sunny day, or rollercoaster ride at the park, then my existence is so very limited and circular. You see a circle is an infinite shape... it goes round and round, forever. But it is confined it can never break OUT. The cross, though there be a collision at its core, reaches out in all 4 directions forever, never breaking true form. I posture that regardless if you believe in Jesus Christ, to live by his teachings is a perfect way to live. Treat others the way you want to be treated, love your neighbors, forgive your enemies. These are impeccable and revolutionary concepts.

I wasn’t actually talking about people renouncing religion although that could be a good point to talk about maybe in another post.

I was talking about those who haven’t already done so, renouncing their attitude of forcing others to accept their religion or any religion, for that matter. And I used the example of islam in general and of “creationism” in America.

My point here is that religion is a personal choice and every human being has to be free to choose the one he would profess or none. And that nobody, no matter how religious he is or how convinced he is that his particular brand of adoring the supernatural is “THE WAY”, has any right whatsoever to force his way of thinking upon other people’s lives.

It is the history of religion that people bring all manners of grief upon others in order to “share the love” of their particular God with them.

The point I’m trying to make here is that peaceful coexistence requires that people renounce totally and unequivocally the use of force except for reasons of self-defense and this includes NOT using force, in any way whatsoever, to further any religion whatsoever.

As with any other human endeavor, religion should be voluntary and this means no use of force, at any level, in any quantity, in any form or manner, from some individuals upon others in order to twist the other’s will into accepting something they don’t want to.

Jorge, very good posting sir. I agree. Religion should never be forced upon anyone! It should be a personal choice. Alot of Christians believe in Christ because their parents raised them that way. My parents raised me that way but I rejected it forever... Then once I was out on my own, I found that it is the faith for me. I came to Christ because of my own convictions and on my OWN accord. NOT because my mom and dad are Christians.

Christianity or a not so reasonable facsimile was forced on me in my youth... but I never really quite got it then. When I actually became a Christian... it was due to understanding. One thing that I understood was that most of the so called Christians in my life were really wolves in sheeps clothing. The Word of God had much to say about them and many others from the past that are right at home in your post.

I do not believe in organized religion... for the most part, it has been putrefied by the ideas and self centered acts of men. I believe that which is of God and it means finding the answers, even if that involves studying a bit of Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I do not believe in the doctrines of men or their self-righteous bullshit. Learning opened my eyes... not the thoughts and words of others. I have known pastors leading their flock blindly, as sheep to the slaughter. I have listened to too many people change the words and meaning of the bible to fit their lifestyle, so they could continue to be held blameless in their own minds.

I do not assume myself to have all the answers... nor to I claim to be the holiest of rollers. However, I do know that it is easier than most would have us believe. Very little of the bible needs interpretation, it is clear and consise, and the parts that do need interpretation... well I don't know anyone who can provide the true meaning. Yet many would have us believe that it is interpreted by all differently and it is not for us to understand. Funny that many people will use the bible to put others in their place, however, when they do something against the bible, they try to excuse their actions by having you believe that the bible has been retranslated so many times, that what it reads wasn't what God was intending. I say bullshit!

Anyway... I do not force my beliefs upon others... and I find that there is good in all, just as there is bad in all. Afterall... God makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

SoToo wrote:

Christianity or a not so reasonable facsimile was forced on me in my youth... but I never really quite got it then. When I actually became a Christian... it was due to understanding. One thing that I understood was that most of the so called Christians in my life were really wolves in sheeps clothing. The Word of God had much to say about them and many others from the past that are right at home in your post.

I do not believe in organized religion... for the most part, it has been putrefied by the ideas and self centered acts of men. I believe that which is of God and it means finding the answers, even if that involves studying a bit of Hebrew, Greek, and Aramaic. I do not believe in the doctrines of men or their self-righteous bullshit. Learning opened my eyes... not the thoughts and words of others. I have known pastors leading their flock blindly, as sheep to the slaughter. I have listened to too many people change the words and meaning of the bible to fit their lifestyle, so they could continue to be held blameless in their own minds.

I do not assume myself to have all the answers... nor to I claim to be the holiest of rollers. However, I do know that it is easier than most would have us believe. Very little of the bible needs interpretation, it is clear and consise, and the parts that do need interpretation... well I don't know anyone who can provide the true meaning. Yet many would have us believe that it is interpreted by all differently and it is not for us to understand. Funny that many people will use the bible to put others in their place, however, when they do something against the bible, they try to excuse their actions by having you believe that the bible has been retranslated so many times, that what it reads wasn't what God was intending. I say bullshit!

Anyway... I do not force my beliefs upon others... and I find that there is good in all, just as there is bad in all. Afterall... God makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

Very true SoToo. I find that we are alot alike in terms of our journey in finding Christ. I also dont claim to be a holy roller and I never claim to be holier than anyone. I just believe and try to live as Christ. Because, whether or not you believe He is the son of man, if you live your life congruent to that of the Christ, you are going to be a great person.